Administering domain's website only

Discussion in 'Domain Names' started by Impel GD, Oct 25, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Impel GD Graphic and Web Design

    I'm not very good with domain/DNS/MX records etc. so would appreciate your guidance.

    A new client already has registered his domain and set up an email account with a third party, but would like me to handle the hosting for his website. What do I need to request that the third party do? Can we point his domain to my HU webspace without leaving his current email account redundant?

    Many thanks.
  2. Rikard Guest

    Dns ....

    Just change the DNS 'A' record (assuming you register or park the domain to the HU hosting) - the MX mail records will continue to do their job as before.

    *EDIT* The only 'problem' I encounter with my non HU registered domain is that mail sent from HU servers stays on the mail system of the server I am on. I just set up another pop account to collect it in tandem with what existed before I saw the 'HU light'

    HTH
  3. Impel GD Graphic and Web Design

    Thanks

    :eek: Wow; that was quick Rikard. Do you keep a window open on this forum pressing the refresh button every couple of minutes?

    So the A record needs to be changed to the HU server IP address? And I just set up a new account for the domain in WHM as normal?
  4. Rikard Guest

    Dns ....

    Caught it out of the corner of my eye as I'd just walked back in here!

    If you set the record 'A' record in WHM to the IP ADDRESS of the server you are on it will work. I don't have WHM but helped a HU user who does have this to do exactly what you are doing so I know it works.

    FYI the MX records behave very seperately.

    :)
  5. Impel GD Graphic and Web Design

    Right. But setting the A record of the domain is something that only the third party registrar can do as they're in control of it? Or is editing DNS something that I need to do in WHM as well?

    Sorry if I'm being simple here.
  6. Rikard Guest

    Dns

    Confusion understandable. I only got my head round it when i joined HU with a domain I had registered previously (necessity==mother of....)

    If you have it in WHM you DO need to edit the records. I don't have WHM as I mention but have succesfully guided someone from screen shots.

    Surely the domain is somewhere else at the moment or are you registering it anew?

    I.E. who/where is the 'Authoritative' DNS server at the moment?
  7. Impel GD Graphic and Web Design

    Yes, a completely separate service provider (Spanner Software) has previously registered the domain for my client. This registrar is also providing email account(s) with this domain. This is to continue to be the case.

    I need to supply the websites webspace and bandwidth via HU. As yet I have not set anything up in my WHM, or contacted Spanner Software.

    As I understood things, Spanner Software would have to change just the A record, and I would simply set up a new account under the domain name. But is this correct?

    Thanks for your help - much appreciated.
  8. Rikard Guest

    You got it in one!

    Wow - I'm speaking to an award winning designer now :)
  9. Adam Administrator

    Hi David,

    Quick summary:

    If the domain is using nameservers that resolve to a HU server

    1. We need to change the MX record from domain.com to mail.domain.com and set it a lower priority than zero.
    2. We will then need to change the the CNAME entry for 'mail.domain.com' to an A record, and then enter the mail server's IP address.
    3. We will remove the domain from our 'localdomains' file, to prevent Exim from processing any e-mail that' sent from your site.

    (Steps 1 and 2 can be done from WHM)

    If the domain isn't using nameservers associated with a HU server

    1. Ask him to create A records for his domain, as well as 'www' entries - they should resolve to the server's IP address.
    2. Whenever a subdomain is created, he will also need to create an A record for said subdomain (ideally two records: www.sub.domain.com and sub.domain.com) with IP address.
    3. Use HU as a decent backup service if his primary e-mail server malfunctions:
    3a. Change existing MX entry to 10 (default is zero, which is the highest priority that can be assigned).
    3b. Add a new MX entry, set the priority to 20 and then the actual MX record to the IP address of the server.

    Kevin
  10. Impel GD Graphic and Web Design

    Thanks Rikard and Kevin.

    So would this message to Spanner Software make sense?

    (I assume the email backup is optional; if so, I'd prefer to tackle that another time.)
  11. Rikard Guest

    Dns ....

    Yep - If you don't intend to use any subdomains for it at present they can set a wildcard entry to cover all the traffic.

    I have to remember to follow the steps outlined by Kevin whenever I add a sub domain now but previously the wildcard entry took care of it.
  12. fidget Vox et praeterea nihil

    Let's not scare anyone off creating sub domains though - cPanel will automatically create the appropriate DNS records when adding any subdomain, addon domain or parked domain. It is not usual for anyone to manually add these using WHM.
  13. Rikard Guest

    DNS is rarely pure, and never simple ....

    Which is true if the domain is registered at HU. Rest of this thread refers Fidget. There is also another reason why I add sub doms in manually covered in This Thread :crazy:
    :bricks:
  14. fidget Vox et praeterea nihil

    Not at all. You may need to edit a DNS zone for a sub/parked/addon domain is to change where email or http requests are handled, granted as in Impel's case here.

    So all of your sub domains handle http and mx requests in different zones.

    For anyone adding a sub, parked or addon domain, cPanel does it all for you, as does HU when you set up your account initially. There is absolutely no need to manually add any of these by tinkering with DNS zones 'whenever' you 'add a sub domain'. All you need to do is change nameservers accordingly if the domain is registered any where else and use cPanel to do the rest.
  15. Rikard Guest

    DNS stuff ....

    I'm not sure of your point? The domain in question currently points somewhere else and needs editing to point to HU. Thats what DNS is - to control where email or http requests end up. Hence editing is required. So you're basically saying you only need to edit DNS when you need to edit DNS ?? :crazy:

    Yes thats correct - not the most common practice but the required one in my case. You go somewhere else if you leave off the 'www' with my domain to handle some 'legacy' issues. I.E. there *must* be seperate entries for those two. This precludes having a wildcard entry in my case - which leads to:-

    Which is what I must do when I create a sub domain. Furthermore this makes sure that the cPanel "There is no web site at this address" never shows up - also required as discussed elsewhere.

    As I said "If the domain is registered at HU" - in this case it's not. Also ref cPanel issue. This ain't 'tinkering' by any means :tongue:

    hence a thread about changing name servers accordingly!

    I think you're over simplifying the problem. Not everyone has bog standard 'out of the box' requirements - thats what started this now 'off topic' thread :)
    :bricks:
  16. fidget Vox et praeterea nihil

    Yes. Kind of.

    No and no I did not say that. Please.

    Exactly

    I believe there may be a more efficient way of doing this, but ok.

    In the fashion that you create one.

    Doesn't happen when you create one in 'common practice'.

    It really doesn't matter where it is registered, you are talking about editing local DNS. Local DNS (local being a DNS zone stored on HU's servers) is only requested if a domain is pointing to HU (such as using HU's nameservers).


    Very useful for many.

    There is not a problem though. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to edit local DNS zones every time they add a sub domain. My point is, its 'not the most common practice' and anyone can easily add one using the add sub domain feature in cPanel without all this. My point is that I have noticed you mention editing local DNS zones more than once here, and your writings intimate that it is a blanket necessity which it is not. Its all very simple, as is what you can do with a local DNS zone. Its easy to get enthusiastic when you manage to edit a DNS zone and get a result, but DNS is way more complicated than just that, but hopefully we wont go there. BTW, you can edit an MX record without using WHM anyway.

    Thank goodness that BIND and/or apache rejects incorrect syntax in local DNS zone edits, its a shame that it wont fully explain why something that you do out of the BIND bible wont work.

    Don't take umbrage old chap, I am just at pains to emphasis that this is all not 'common practice' and unncessary when its 'what I must do when I create a sub domain'.
  17. Rikard Guest

    Dns

    No umbrage taken Fidget - I genuinely respect the advice you give but I'm genuinely confused with the advice you're giving here! With respect :wallbash: :tongue:

    If you know a better way to achieve the results I require then please explain - I'm all ears, so to speak :) Safe in the knowledge that the [award winning] ImpelGD has found the information which his plight required we can discuss. (Dark Star/Bomb/Phenomonology comes to mind for some reason)

    I do mention DNS things around here because I don't have a problem with them. It's one part of networking that hasn't really changed in the 17 years since I first had to learn it. I have also appended some disclaimers saying "don't touch it if you're in doubt" but I'm dead against 'dumbing down' my answers at all. There are some intelligent peeps here.

    I don't understand:-

    R - Thats what DNS is - to control where email or http requests end up.
    F - Yes, kind of

    I'm talking about the 'Authoritative' DNS for a domain - I'm not sure what you mean by 'local' DNS. I don't understand 'kind of'.

    R- [1]Hence editing is required. [2]So you're basically saying you only need to edit DNS when you need to edit DNS ?? :crazy:
    F- [1]No and [2]no I did not say that. Please.

    So you mean that the DNS entry for the domain in question doesn't need editing? If so why not and how would you direct traffic for the domain?

    R - not the most common practice but the required one in my case
    F - Exactly

    I meant usually 1 domain name usually gets directed to one server by saying that.

    R - You go somewhere else if you leave off the 'www' with my domain to handle some 'legacy' issues. I.E. there *must* be seperate entries for those two. This precludes having a wildcard entry in my case
    F - I believe there may be a more efficient way of doing this, but ok.

    This is what I'd like to know - please explain. Although editing less than 10 characters in the DNS and clicking 'SAVE' seems pretty efficient.

    R - Which is what I must do when I create a sub domain.
    F - In the fashion that you create one.

    Which I do for more than one reason - so again please explain this other way to achieve the results I require?

    R - Furthermore this makes sure that the cPanel "There is no web site at this address" never shows up
    F - Doesn't happen when you create one in 'common practice'.

    It definately does that, not only for myself as discussed previously Here your take on the scenario would be interesting and usefull. I spent a lot of time testing various scenarios with my setup and thats the conclusion I came to.

    R - As I said "If the domain is registered at HU" - in this case it's not.
    F - It really doesn't matter where it is registered, you are talking about editing local DNS.

    I would call it the 'Authoritative' DNS, local DNS can mean different things depending on where you are looking from. I have a local Domain Name Server on my machine here for example but it only serves my local network.

    F - Local DNS (local being a DNS zone stored on HU's servers) is only requested if a domain is pointing to HU (such as using HU's nameservers).

    You mean when HU holds the 'Authoritative' records for a domain? More specifically when the domain owner/controller has specified the nameservers to use. If the authoritative records are held elsewhere then HU's DNS will utimately have got its information from there. I never have to touch HU's DNS entries (nor can I), for example, even though my domain points to HU.

    R - I think you're over simplifying the problem.
    F - There is not a problem though.

    :crazy:

    F - There is absolutely no reason for anyone to edit local DNS zones every time they add a sub domain.

    No, not for everybody, not by a long shot. There is the way my set up is, erm, setup. Again, please explain how I can avoid this efficiently. I am also beggining to wonder why Kevin mentioned this in his post if what you say is correct.

    F - My point is that I have noticed you mention editing local DNS zones more than once here, and your writings intimate that it is a blanket necessity which it is not.

    I'm sorry if thats the way you have read my previous posts. The feedback has otherwise had positive results and, I've been told, accomplished the required results. I certainly didn't mean for it to be read that way. I merely posted (as I believe I have pointed out in the posts) "here is a way of achieving what you are after which I have found works for me - I hope it works for you also". If anyone finds a better way then thats good also. There's usually more than one solution to a problem. I can only speak of that which I know. Nothing other than that which is posted is intimated.

    F - Its easy to get enthusiastic when you manage to edit a DNS zone and get a result, but DNS is way more complicated than just that, but hopefully we wont go there.

    Well (hee hee) it's more than editing a DNS zone and getting a result. It's more studying it and applying the knowledge. I don't find it too complicated but like I say it's been a long time. Linux boxes on private networks have to be edited at first wether you want to or not. Thank goodness there are forums these days where you can ask for advice and that the knowledge is widespead enough for there actually to be people to ask.

    F - BTW, you can edit an MX record without using WHM anyway.

    Can't see where I said to the contrary but as I don't use WHM anyways I'll take your word for it. Anythings got to be better than having to use 'vi'

    F - Thank goodness that BIND and/or apache rejects incorrect syntax in local DNS zone edits,

    I quite agree! It's a satisfying and good way to learn what does and doesn't work. You instantly get feedback either good or bad. Although once you've done it enough times it's just like, erm, any other previously complicated thing that you've done a few times.

    F - Don't take umbrage old chap,

    None taken - this is a forum and I don't mind discussing it.

    F - I am just at pains to emphasis that this is all not 'common practice' and unncessary when its 'what I must do when I create a sub domain'.

    And I'm just explaining thats the way it is with my setup - but seriously please explain if you think I can do it any better! It's so simple to do the way it is I can't see a better way myself but am always willing to learn new things.

    I think you could actually inject some hard information into the discussion whilst you are disecting my posts with such surgical skill!!

    Like bomb number 20 in Dark Star says "This is fun!"

    :wavey:
  18. Impel GD Graphic and Web Design

    What a rally...

    Rikard fires a low, powerful return down right of court [all heads turn to Fidget].

    :D

    Seriously, you guys lost me some time ago, but I do know what I need to request/do. Thanks again.
  19. fidget Vox et praeterea nihil

    I really can't be bothered to reply to this in your bit by bit manner again (I was merely copying the way you replied in the first place), you've gone way off on one I think. But if you do have '17 years' experience of DNS in the manner you say, I don't see why you don't understand (although here and there, you do say that you do understand :crazy: ) what I am saying or even know of more efficient ways of doing things. There's heaps of free info available through Google, absolutely heaps of it and of that doesn't help, the DNS parts of the DNS and Bind book might help. And TBO, you are giving the appearance of someone who has taken umbrage, so I will depart and leave it there. :wavey:
  20. Adam Administrator

    Hi,

    Just to clarify - my small checklist was only applicable for David's requirements. If we manage your nameservers and e-mail then clearly we take care of all DNS aspects. I was just pointing out what would happen if a client wished to use a separate mail server to HU's.

    As David's now clear with what needs to be done I'm closing this thread.

    Kevin
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page